Patrick:            Hi everybody. I’m Pat V and you’re listening to the Rise Above Your Best podcast, where I’m not only obsessed with searching out and interviewing individuals that are achieving great success to uncover their habits, but also in uncovering and presenting the research that proves that great success is available to anyone. It all starts when you believe in the power of rising above your best.

Patrick:            My guest today is Pete Atherton, who is the owner of ActionsProve, which helps high achieving individuals win at work and life. He’s also the author of the book, Reversing Burnout: How to Immediately Engage Top Talent and Grow. Pete had been a hard charging, successful engineer and partner of a hugely successful engineering firm.

Patrick:            It was late into his ascent to the top of his field that Pete began to sense that something was missing for his own growth. It was at this point that Pete engineered his own exit as an engineer and partner, and began to focus on helping individuals and organizations design better strategies for maintaining engagement and eliminating burnout.

Patrick:            I hope you enjoy listening to Pete as he talks about the stages of our own careers, how to be on the lookout for burnout in our own lives, and how to take advantage of the seasons, as he calls them, of our professional careers. Why don’t we jump into it?

Patrick:            Pete, I want to thank you again for taking the time to meet with me. I had the opportunity to meet with Pete several months ago and started talking about some of the initiatives and things that he was involved in. It just really resonated with me, especially this idea of the book that you recently put out, Reversing Burnout, and the subtitle of it, How to Immediately Engage Top Talent and Grow a Blueprint for Professionals and Business Owners.

Patrick:            Certainly, Pete, you and I are in the similar age bracket and I think in terms of … Both of us have very similar experiences, although in different professions, of feeling like there was more for us to do. In the current professions that we were in, even though we were very successful, that there was just something missing. I’d be curious to have you give a little bit more about your back story. How did you get to where you are and then, really, how did Reversing Burnout come to be?

Peter:              Yes, well first of all, it’s great to be here and thank you so much for having me, Patrick. It has been a little bit of a process to get to the point of recognizing that I had burnout and overcome that, and moved into something that was a little bigger. For the first 20 plus years of my career, I was a practicing, professional engineer and, by all standards that I had in my mind, as far as success, I was able to check the boxes and rise to a place where I was a senior executive in the firm and one of the major owners.

Peter:              As I continued to progress in my career, I noticed a maturing of my interests, and even a peaking of my interests, when I was considering what role and what I wanted out of my career for the next 20 years, and realized that I was looking for something different. I was perplexed and puzzled by that, and just went through a process of trying to figure out why.

Peter:              Part of it was I had sort of lost my efficacy, my interest and my passion in that, but I also discovered that I was just physically burnt out. I was mentally burnt out and I was feeling some regrets about missing out on things. I had said, “Okay, well I’m an engineer. I’m going to figure this out. How did I get to this point?”

Peter:              Then, once I understood what went into getting me to this point, I’m going to figure out how to leverage this moving forward, because there had been some things that were peaking my interest now, but how was I going to move forward and do that and really have the biggest impact I can have, again, leveraging where I had been and figuring out, again, what will the next 20 years look like.

Patrick:            Which doesn’t seem like a lot of time when you’re in it, but how quickly it goes in terms of career and, all of a sudden, I know, as I read your book and tried to put that into my own perspective, in terms of how I made the shifts that I did to go off on my own. How would you say that this idea of burnout, or disengagement, why is it so prevalent today?

Peter:              I think it’s just that work has changed and life has changed. The big culprit is we’re busy and we’re always on and we’re always connected, even just in a work sense. I mean when I started my career in the early 1990s, the new thing was a fax machine and, oh no, we need to respond within a week now. We can’t receive a letter and actually think of a response and cultivate a response and have that sent out over the next week or two. It’s the instant gratification of emails and text messages.

Peter:              It’s like we’re just always on, in that sense. We bring the work home with us. That technology is great and there’s a lot of efficiencies to be gained from that, but when it’s with us all the time, it is very consuming in that sense and expectations. All of a sudden, we’re always doing work and, even when we’re not doing work, we’re thinking about that email or bringing it in bed with us or bringing it to the kitchen table.

Peter:              I think that is one thing, that consuming nature, and it’s so ubiquitous now that for a long time it was sort of acceptable. Thankfully, it’s becoming less acceptable now, but people are recognizing some of the damage that’s been done. Traditional business was a little bit more hard charging. If you want to succeed, you got to put in your time. What time do you put in now when you’re putting in pretty much all of your time, and you’re thinking about things all the time?

Peter:              The badge of honor now is how are you able to integrate things together and have some better balance and succeed at work and succeed at life? I don’t think the executive who has thrown away their entire relationships outside of work is held up to the high standard it might have been in the ’80s. I think the leadership that is taking root today, and that really inspire people, are the people who have a much better balance and are able to get it all done in an integrated fashion.

Peter:              I think there’s going to be a little bit of a shift now, with leaders stepping out of that pull of the recent tradition without a crisis. I mean change is hard without a crisis. The traditional norms have a strong pull to them.

Patrick:            I couldn’t agree more. I think one of the things, and you and I spoke about it at one point, was this idea of the next generation coming in. Many might say that they are lazy or less focused and, in many regards, I think they work as hard as we did. I think they’re just much smarter about it, in terms of how they try and balance the two. Along those lines, I’m just wondering was there a specific point in your career where you just said, “This is it?” I mean is there any defining moment that you can think of where you said, “This is not going to work anymore. This is the path I’m going in.”

Peter:              I mean I had had discontent for a while. When I had recognized it and spent the time to work through what I was feeling, why I was feeling it and come to the conclusion that more of this isn’t going to work. That was a pivotal point, trying to figure out what I wanted to do was a pivotal point. It really was over a period of years, just being aware, I guess, it’s increasing my self-awareness, that emotional intelligence, getting feedback from others, not necessarily directly but indirectly, and defining what I wanted out of life. Those were all series of pivotal moments that just built up my courage to actually pull the trigger.

Peter:              I think Gen Xers, and I’m squarely a Gen Xer, we’ve seen issues when people are focused on their career. I know a lot of people who are latchkey kids and seeing family issues, because the focus is on work, and want a little bit more today. I mean I think there’s a generational change that I don’t want that for my family that I [inaudible 00:08:21] it’s good or bad. It’s just want something different than what business and career focus all produced in certain pockets, I don’t want that now.

Peter:              I think millennials come in never really wanting that in the first place. Boomers themselves have reached the point where they want to make a difference and leave a legacy. They’re actually thinking about things a little differently. Generationally, I think work has changed and the millennials and the younger folks just come in already wanting that change to happen. Really, it’s the Xers that are making it happen, because they’ve had to live the old life.

Peter:              Now, they’re at the point, they’re 40, 50 years old in leadership positions and it’s dawning on them that I can make the change. Not only the change that I want, but it’s actually a change that’s going to keep top talent my age fully engaged. It’s going to help me attract and retain and grow the next generation. It’s actually things that I’ve been wanting for a long time.

Peter:              I think, as far as in the workplace [inaudible 00:09:23], I think not only attracting and retaining the next generation is important, I think more and more organizations are realizing that they need to give a reason for their Gen Xers, their emerging leaders or current leaders who might be just disengaged with golden handcuffs, more invested into the organization so they don’t develop side hustles. There’s no impact at work anymore.

Peter:              I don’t love my job, I’m just doing the same old thing. I got to do that for 10 more years to get my kid through school. Not saying that everyone thinks that way, but if you think through it, why am I just going through the motions? Why can’t I love this again? Why can’t I love it like I did when I was 35 at the age of 55, and not dream of having an encore career or dream of having an early retirement, dream of I wish I could do a side hustle. Or, you know what, for the next 10 years, I’m going to go to a competitor because they’re just offering something that gives me a little bit more growth and a little bit more impact.

Peter:              The business owners and the executive teams that I work with, it’s like that’s your bottom line today. Those are the people who have your client relationships. Those are the people who know your products. Those are the people who are making your company work in this quarter and next quarter. Yes, you have to be concerned with the millennials, but they’re your quarter five years from now and 10 years from now. That’s important, but maybe not as important as focusing on the people with the 20 or 30 years experience.

Patrick:            When you made the decision to go off and do your own thing, you’re super successful. You’re a partner in an organization. What were people saying to you?

Peter:              I fell into the trap that a lot of people do, and my success defined me. It was my identity. It took me … Once I worked through that, I think other people had a harder time. They still identified me with certain things. There was a period of what do you mean you want to do something different? Why would you ever want to? The people who knew me the best got it, but it took me a while to articulate. The people who care for me, they’re like, “What are you going to do forever? Why don’t you just hold on a little longer and do this?” They were caring, but didn’t get it. Other people were like, “You know what? You could get hit by that bus tomorrow.”

Peter:              At the time, I had done several years of personal financial planning, because I had seen this, I had felt it coming. After a year or two of working through the process, I had, okay, it’s here. It’s coming. How am I going to get my financial ship in order? How am I going to start the process of talking to my wife and my family about I want to do something different? That is a process in and of itself. People are giving me great counsel, like you’re talking about possible lifestyle shifts. The things that people were banking on for 20 years might be a little different moving forward. It could be much better, or it could be a period of not much better.

Peter:              I had worked through that process with people. I mean it is, again, without being more self-aware, I wouldn’t have been able to articulate to people. Even still, I think some of the people that I knew in a business sense, the day I sold the rest of my shares and resigned from the board of directors, I still think probably half the people were like, “I don’t get it. This is nuts.” Again, the people who were interested in … And that’s the thing. It’s like you’re going through these life transformations. You want to have greater impact and significance beyond how people have defined you and maybe how you’ve defined yourself.

Peter:              Actually, few people really care to know why. Those few people, and partly because they’re just nice people and partly because they’re feeling something themselves, I knew some people got it, whether they’re at a point later on to pull their own personal trigger. It doesn’t have to be a drastic change. I mean for me, it got to the point where I knew I wanted to do something different. For other people, it’s a refresh of mindset. It’s a refresh in place, start doing something a little differently at work. I’m going to focus more on the mentorship at work and not so much of the other aspects that grind me.

Peter:              Some organizations are helping people say, “Okay. You want to make a difference, you want to start mentoring. Okay, let’s put that as part of your job description.” It is a process. Again, I didn’t set it up so that I needed other people to affirm. I mean it’s always nice when people affirm what you’re doing. It was that process of really being aware of what I wanted and taking the steps.

Peter:              Again, none of this stuff happened in a vacuum. None of this stuff happened quickly. It was really over a seven year, when I went back and mapped it all out, it was a seven year process from the time that I was sitting in a strategic and succession planning meeting saying, “You know what? Something feels different,” to, “I’m done. I’ve fulfilled my commitment as a partner. I fulfilled my [inaudible 00:14:28] part-time. I’m done. I’m 100% in this new venture.” That was a seven year process.

Patrick:            At any point during that, do you remember that time where maybe you thought, what am I doing? Is this really the right decision?

Peter:              No. There’s no regrets. In fact, I was motivated more by regrets of missing out and staying in that. I loved my profession. I love the people. I love the products. I love what I was able to accomplish from an engineering perspective. None of that was bad. I just knew I had changed, and a new season was upon me. It wasn’t like I didn’t like it anymore and it was bad.

Peter:              I just knew, you know what? If I’m going to rise above my best and do the things that I feel like I’m gifted towards and I can leverage my skills and talents for, I need to have the courage to make a change and not just wait for it to happen, because it won’t happen until I take action to prove that I’m going to live the life, I’m going to help people live the life and have the organization that they really want to have.

Patrick:            I love, as you mentioned, this idea of seasons in your book where you talk about both our work and our life seasons. How do you use that when you’re working with individuals or others to help them to see where they are in that space? I think it was very powerful, as I read it, as we talked about, I saw myself in part of this letting go phase during the family season with my oldest son. Also, feeling it during almost from a sense of the work that I was in before, from a making a difference season on the work end. I’d be curious, how do you use that with the people you work with?

Peter:              It’s interesting because I developed this. Maybe this is somewhere and someone’s done it in a research, but I mean this was … I developed this based on my experience and my understanding of what professionals and what business owners go through, really high achievers, what they go through as far as the four work seasons of mastering your craft and making a name, and then transitioning at the halfway point through our career to really wanting to make a difference, and then towards the end, leaving a legacy. I had interviewed and talked to so many people who that’s what they were saying and feeling. It wasn’t quite articulated like that.

Peter:              Mapping that and then just thinking through someone’s life journey, and then bringing those both together. Part of it … Again, this was 100% done in my I get up early. I start working between 06:00 and 07:00 a.m most mornings. My work starts with, and I started this several years ago, five years ago now, trying to make myself have some time. The first 30 to 60 minutes of my day is reading, journaling, strategic planning and thinking about things like this. During that season, I had gone through that, I want to understand my work and life seasons.

Peter:              My wife and I had our family pretty early. We were on an accelerated path as far as working through the raising family phase and letting go and empty nesting. I felt a lot of things probably 10 years before I should have felt a lot of things. To answer your question, when I talk to people about that, it resonates right away intuitively. Then, I map it out. I draw it or they turn to that page in the book.

Peter:              When they think through it, okay, years of experience and then my age and just meshing out the realities of this is my work. This is what I’ve had to invest to be good. This is what I’ve had to invest to build that business. This is what’s been going on at the same time family-wise. Wow, I haven’t seen it put together like this, but it resonates with me. Again, it’s that piece of I’m a little bit more aware of something. I’m seeing dots connected in a new way. It’s just there’s that power and the awareness.

Peter:              Now, it’s like, “Okay. What am I going to do?” Just the thought of that, a season ends and transitions into something, number one, we always love a deadline, I mean as far as getting work done. Number two, it makes it okay that things change. Let’s now relish the moments we have, because our kids won’t be around forever. We can get sad about it or we can take the advantage of that. Employers that help employees take advantage of hey, my kid’s in high school. That’s not going to be this way. They could be in California, [inaudible 00:18:54] Florida for college.

Peter:              Employers who provide that flexibility to let that happen, I tell you, they win loyalty. People who are like, “I was so zoned in. I didn’t realize, I mean I realized but I didn’t really realize, my kid’s leaving. Or I have to rebuild a relationship with my wife or we need to connect on new levels, because we’re going to be empty nesters.” I think those types of issues, work and as far as, also, my success at work, me being a keynote speaker at the so-and-so and being employee of the year, making my name, well that’s a milestone too. That’s not a destination.

Peter:              Eventually, you’re going to want something more. I think just laying it out and seeing it is so pivotal. I think people always internalize it and go through that process of the awareness. Then, they want to take it out and say, “Okay. How are my relationships going to be different now at work? How are my relationships going to be different now at home?” There’s that empowerment. I felt that when I got it. It’s really cool as someone who is developing content for other than my industry content for the first time, for someone to get inspired by something you’ve done.

Patrick:            Let me ask you, if you’re starting a company brand-new right now, what things do you think you would do, as it relates to your book, to prevent this sort of burnout?

Peter:              I think it would be acknowledging that in order to build something successful, in order to achieve a certain status in a profession, I mean there is going to be a degree of all in. I mean you don’t become a star basketball player without hours and hours and hours practicing your game. Same thing with a physician, same thing with the head of whatever in corporation X. I mean you have to master. Now, keep in mind that that will be a milestone when you master that, when you bring in the first client, when you serve that client.

Peter:              Don’t lose sight of the fact that there’s other dimensions to your life. You’re going to have to say, “Okay. For the next six months, this is a big deal,” and still have those connections with your family. Make sure the expectations are lined up, and don’t let it last 10 years. Make sure you can integrate things in. I mean there’s some degree of balance to be able to put things down and pick other things up. More and more, it’s more about integration.

Peter:              I think, ultimately, yeah, we want to be able to provide for ourselves, provide for our families, be productive in the world and build great products and services. That’s one aspect of life. I mean the other aspect is I need to be connected to others. I need to be connected to community. It can’t be about my work. Then, there’s a relationship with ourselves that we need a sense of purpose. It’s not going to be our job. We’re going to want to make an impact outside of our immediate family and outside of my certain skill set. We’re going to want to be part of something greater.

Peter:              I think there’s seasons is number one. You have to be dedicated. I mean I have that discussion with young folks, like, “I want all of everything.” You can’t. You really have to have seasons where you really have to dedicate yourself to something if you want to be good and have an impact that way. You just don’t want that to be your whole life. You just want to maintain the balance and the focus.

Patrick:            What would you recommend to an employer? What things can they do to help support this?

Peter:              I think if they … Yeah, just understanding. I mean most organizations are into talent management, instead of I’m a division of employee growth and impact. They’re thinking that at any given time, our employees want the same thing. It’s not. I mean early in people’s careers, they want opportunities. Again, they want to master a craft, make a name. That’s what employees want. The top leaders and top organizations are going to craft an engagement strategy, a growth strategy around that.

Peter:              When employees might be in their family years, it’s flexibility. I mean they’re still going to be wanting to gun it at work. They got college to pay for. They want to take the kids to vacation. They still want to succeed, but they also have a family and obligations. More and more, if you’re asking someone to choose between their family and their career, they’re going to [inaudible 00:23:25] career and figure out how to make it work.

Peter:              Organizations, the most forward thinking or the growth oriented industries who really want to retain that talent, because that talent’s going to be more important five years from now and 10 years from now, they’re thinking of, okay. Your family years, flexibility. That’s the biggest thing I can do for that.

Peter:              Then, as employees transition into those empty nest years, how do I reinvigorate their careers? How do I give them more growth and impact when the thing that they’ve done, they’ve done for 25 years? How am I going to allow them to grow in that? Maybe how do I leverage my organization into the marketplace, something new, because I want to keep them around? I want to keep them engaged. Again, they’re making [inaudible 00:24:11] money now. I need them to train the next generation, because they’re craving that type of attention.

Peter:              If organizations just blindly say, “I’m going to motivate a 55 year old the way I motivated when they were 30,” it’s just not going to work. They’re just not going to have that engagement. It’s really not going to attract the millennials. They’re not going to feel like they can grow from that type of talent either. I think understanding what the dynamic is and what does the organization need, which really is what do the employees need to be able to love their jobs and contribute?

Peter:              I think that’s where the organizational mindset, okay, you’d be an okay company. If it’s an employee growth and impact mindset, I think, okay, that’s a great company. That’s going to attract people to that company who are going to give their best efforts, because they’re going to want to be part of that.

Patrick:            Completely agree. I certainly see that in my own work. Are there any books or mentors that you would look to and say they had a profound impact on the direction that you’ve taken in this work?

Peter:              I mean as far as books, I mean when I was going through … Again, when I had sensed, okay, I’m reaching a peak. That is not going to be my peak. I’m reaching the peak of my career, but that’s not going to be the peak of my life or really what I want out of my efforts from a work perspective. A little bit struggling with that, and it was struggling with it had become my identity. I was in that phase. Someone had recommended a book to me called Halftime by Bob Buford.

Patrick:            Which you actually reference in your book.

Peter:              I do. I reference that in my book, because it was so pivotal before me. Really, he was the first person. He had a tremendous relationship with Peter Drucker, big management guru back in the ’80s, late ’80s. Through Bob’s book, it was the first one that said, “Listen. We have two halves to our adult life,” which made it okay. I mean I was thinking that what I agreed to do, to be an engineer, to design water treatment plants and major municipal infrastructure projects and help the environment and all that stuff, I made that decision when I was 18, 19 years old.

Peter:              I have to carry that through until I’m 70. He sort of gave me the license, the okay, to say, “Well we have a first half of adult life, which probably most of us are pretty over prepared for. Then, there’s this second half of adult life which happens in our 40s, when certain events happen, that we’re, by and large, under prepared for.” Partly because it’s a new phenomenon. We’re living longer, we have more knowledge workers. We’re not physically beaten down and golfing. I mean no one wants to do that for that long when they retire.

Peter:              Life has changed, society has changed. The way Bob, in this book, talked about that but then just shared his journey, his words from success to significance, super resonated with me. The fact that it was 25 years ago, just [inaudible 00:27:14] wow, we’re all human. We really don’t change that much. I was able to see things that happened in his life through the lens of, “Well I remember when I was this age when that happened.” That was a really pivotal book for me.

Peter:              As far as mentors, I mean on a professional sense, I mean I had just super great managers and mentors that I worked for. They were able to show me so much. I was also in the orbit of people who were 180 degrees from that. They were able to show me so much too. I think both are great examples to learn from. I’ve always been attuned to figuring out what makes somebody successful, or what makes the opposite happen, and adjust accordingly what I’m involved with today. It all comes down to taking action and understanding do you want to live a different life? Do you want to be a different leader? Do you want to have a different organization? Take action.

Peter:              Where I got into my life, it’s like I wanted that. I wanted that. Then, it’s like, “Well prove it. Take action and move towards that life that you desire, to being that organization, being part of that organization.” Ultimately, we’re in control. We can make things happen if we take the time to figure out what we want to have happen, and actually have the courage to do something different, to take action. That’s if we really want to make it happen.

Peter:              A lot of people don’t have that sort of courage. That was part of my naming of my company, ActionsProve. It was they’re going to be the reminder to me that I’m going to take action to prove what I want out of life, to prove what I want to do to help individuals, to help organizations. Then, people who I’m working with, to help them take that action to prove really what they want to be organizationally or individually.

Patrick:            I do love that. It reminds me, I heard a coach speak to a player one time, not to the player but to somebody else saying, “That person has a lot of potential.” He said, “What I mean about that is that they haven’t done anything yet.”

Peter:              [crosstalk 00:29:24].

Patrick:            That’s exactly what you’re saying. It’s this idea of talk is cheap.

Peter:              Right. It’s opportunities. We all have opportunities. We have opportunities to be different and better, personally and professionally. We have opportunities organizationally to attract people to us, to differentiate ourselves in the marketplace, but we got to take action. Enough talk. It’s not on the list, on the list isn’t making it happen. Actually, taking action is what makes it happen.

Patrick:            Right. It’s that line of we always will lack a resource, whether it’s time or money or I’m too tall, I’m too short, whatever that might be. It’s speaking to what you’re saying right now is we all have the same ability for resourcefulness. That even though I might not have the resources, we all have equal access to resourcefulness if we want to tap into it, which is exactly what you’re speaking to, which I think is great.

Peter:              Right. It’s the difference [inaudible 00:30:22] age-old difference between leadership and management. I mean I’m going to lead my life or I’m going to lead my organization. I don’t need to know every answer to every question. I just need to know [inaudible 00:30:33] feel it in my gut, it’s the right thing to do. I’m going to move forward. I’m going to have people around me or I’m going to have the confidence to know we will figure this thing out, but we got to move. Let’s go, versus a management mindset with, well, we need everybody to be onboard and build consensus.

Peter:              I’m not saying there aren’t appropriate ways and situations where a management approach to leadership isn’t important. When it comes to making decisions, a leadership approach to leadership, and not having to know all the answers but knowing we’re right, I think is an important distinction.

Patrick:            So true, so true. As we sort of wrap things up here, who is somebody that you can help the most?

Peter:              I’m working a lot with business owners and executives and executive teams to help them from an employee engagement perspective, from coming up with a corporate impact design. How [inaudible 00:31:34] organizations can be different and better from an internal employee engagement perspective, from a marketing perspective and how do I do something that is not just producing great products and services and good for our shareholders, but how do we do something more that keeps us engaged and helps us be attractive to others in the marketplace?

Peter:              That’s really interesting and fun. I love that whole design aspect. Another interesting element to this is that it’s the personal level of people saying, “Before I leverage this organizationally, we need to work on an individual basis so that I’m loving things again. I’m making sure my personal life is in order before I can really have that authenticity to leverage things on an organizational level.” There is that little bit of push, I want to do these things. I want to do these things organizationally. Again, it’s high achieving professionals, executives and business owners who want to do more organizationally.

Peter:              They just realize that they’ve been trapped in the pull of the consuming nature of their career. They need a personal, little timeout and they need to personally work through what they want. They got to identify needs. They’ve got to bring partners onboard, people who are like, “Business is business. Tradition is tradition. Why would we do something different?” There’s this little bit of an individual process, this bringing executive teams together before they can, ultimately, have their impact organizationally.

Peter:              The problem is the clock is ticking for organizations to really differentiate themselves and attract. There is a process of bringing the executive team on the bus and getting them in [inaudible 00:33:25] in their right seats. Again, time is the difference. Forward thinking and growth orientated organizations and leaders are making it happen now, and they’re attracting the best talent. Other organizations are just taking a little bit longer.

Patrick:            Off of that, how can people reach out to you? How can they get a hold of you?

Peter:              My hub, I’m using my website. has access to the book. It has access to my weekly blogs and a lot of content that way. I’m on social media, I’m doing that more and more over the last couple of years. Peter Atherton, I have an LinkedIn profile there and, also, have an ActionsProve page. I’ve been doing more on Facebook also.

Patrick:            Great. I will tell you, whether you are an individual looking for certainly ways to identify when burnout might be starting in your own professional career, things to identify and how to deal with it, or you’re a business and you’re trying to identify as we look to maintain top talent, what things can you do to help out those employees that you have that are potentially going to burnout, this book is a great opportunity. Reversing Burnout is certainly something that I would recommend. Pete, I really appreciate your time and, certainly, the conversation has been great. Certainly, an area that needs a lot of attention, so thank you.

Peter:              Thank you. You’re very welcome. Again, it’s been great to be here. I appreciate all you do with getting the message out that you are, and what you do to help leaders and organizations rise above their best.

Patrick:            I hope you were able to walk away with some pearls from Pete talking about the seasons of our careers, how to take advantage of them, how not to miss out on opportunities. If you’re the owner of a company, maybe strategy that you can use to try and prevent burnout in those people that are most important to you within the organization.

Patrick:            As well, I hope you’re able to gain insights and value from how Pete talked about his own company, ActionsProve, that talk is cheap, that it really is about hard work and putting the time into make that happen, which Pete certainly, by his own examples, has shown the benefits of hard work and what that can do for you. I hope you find a way to use what you’ve heard here to go out and rise above your best. I hope you have an opportunity to read Pete’s book, Reversing Burnout.


Actions Prove

Reversing Burnout

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Special thanks to Pete Atherton for joining me this week.