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Get Ready to Have Your “Last Bad Day” with Micheal O’Brien, Author of SHIFT and Owner of Peloton Coaching -002

Patrick:            Hi everyone, I’m Pat V, and you’re listening to the Rise Above Your Best podcast, where I am not only obsessed with searching out in interviewing individuals that are achieving great success to uncover their habits, but also in uncovering and presenting the research that provides the evidence that success is available to anyone, and it all starts when you believe in the power of rising above your past.

Patrick:            My guest today is Michael O’Brien. He is currently the founder of Peloton Coaching. He started his career in sales, selling copiers. And anyone that has sold in that environment will tell you, if you can make it there, you can make it anywhere. From there, he entered the world of pharmaceutical sales, and quickly moved his way up the ranks. In his final role before breaking away from the pharmaceutical industry, he was managing a national sales team and responsible for a budget, as he says, included more money than he ever thought he would be responsible for.

Patrick:            While attending a pharmaceutical sales conference in Arizona, Michael’s life would be transformed in ways that he couldn’t even imagine. But out of that tragedy started his journey to help himself and others develop strategies to help them have, as he calls it, their last bad day. Listen as Michael relives his accident and his transformation to executive coaching, authoring his incredibly powerful book “Shift,” and how he’s using the proceeds from that book to make an impact on the lives of others.

Patrick:            Let’s jump right in. Michael, thank you again for taking the time to speak with me this morning. As I mentioned, I loved reading your book “Shift,” and certainly had known you before you started your company Peloton Coaching, and was really hoping maybe to start this off by asking you to sort of talk about your professional path leading up to Peloton.

Michael:           Sure thing, Patrick. Well, first of all, I just want to say it’s an honor to be with you, and know listeners will understand that we had a working relationship and a friendship prior to this interview, and the fact that you are now the developer of people and now this podcast Rise Above Your Best. There’s a lot of pride and a lot of like great, like warm fuzzy emotions that I have just joining you in this conversation today. So I just want to like tip of the hat to you for taking the bold move and changing lives in a different way. So congratulations, sir.

Patrick:            Yeah, thanks and I appreciate that. And certainly from a coaching and a mentoring standpoint, I certainly have drawn a lot of strength from you so I appreciate that. Thanks.

Michael:           Cool. No problem. Well, to go back to your question, so before this, before our conversation, my early days I spent in sales, marketing and operations, but mainly sales. I started off in actually copier sales out of college, and I wanted to get into healthcare sales. The desire was to get into pharmaceutical sales, as I left James Madison University, but they said, a lot of the recruiters, companies like Merck where like, hey buddy, you don’t have any experience. Go out and get some sales experience and then give us a call back.

Michael:           So I sold copiers for about 20 months in Washington DC, 100% commission type of job. Very Glengarry Glen Ross type of world, you know, coffee is for closers. So that’s like, people watch that movie who are not in sales. That doesn’t happen. I’m like, oh no, no, that totally happens. We had a quota board with everyone’s quota up. And if you didn’t hit quota, you got called out, right? So, makes some interesting, interesting things that were said back then sometimes pop up in today’s conversation in 2018 in terms of stability and stuff like that.

Michael:           And back then it was like, it was like there were no barriers. But eventually I left that and got into pharmaceutical sales, and started off as a representative in Washington DC, and then work my career forward, moving to New Jersey eventually. Mainly to diversify my resume. I wanted to make sure I was building a career that was as diverse as possible so I could see things from multiple perspectives, a theme that’s in shift. And I also wanted some career like insurance, right? So I could go into a lot of different fields if something unfortunate happened, like a downsizing and whatnot.

Michael:           So I moved our family to New Jersey, and then began sort of life in corporate America, and eventually moved my way up to executive leadership. So the last six years in pharma, I served as the vice president of sales, marketing and operations. The title changed within those six years. But in essence I was responsible for a lot more money than I thought I would ever be responsible coming out of college, and many more people than I ever thought as a head of a business unit for a Japanese multinational company that, you know, obviously we share experience with.

Patrick:            I have to chuckle when I hear you talking about your copier beginnings, because I didn’t realize that I started out as well, tried to get into pharmaceuticals and was told you need sales experience. I ended up working for a company called ADP doing tax and payroll. And very similar, you know, this sort of. Actually the movie Glengarry Glen Ross. We watched in a sales meeting one time, just the part on coffee and closers. And this was on a week that our numbers were down. That was the motivator.

Michael:           It’s like, yeah, no, it’s classic. I actually interviewed with ADP, I was about a year into copier sales. I’m like, this is tough, and I went to ADP and I’m like, that’s just as tough. This is crazy. But yeah, some man, some of the stories that I could share, I won’t go into them today, but like it would make a lot of people blush in terms of like what was said and just sort of behavior of really crappy leaders as a way to motivate people. And your movie as a motivator. It was one of those classic stories.

Patrick:            Right. Obviously we joke about those, but probably there are things that you have taken forward of either things that you saw that you didn’t like and certainly strengths that you built because of that tough environment. What are some of those that you think have sort of stayed with you?

Michael:           Well, so certainly you know, you learn a lot from good leaders. You also learn a lot from, you know, your not so great leaders. I think some of it comes down to, some of the things I learned from not so great leaders as far as like not connecting and listening to folks and making it all about themselves or the whole, they value the me over the we. And so, some of the, one characteristic of all, sort of the bad leaders I’ve had to work with over the years, and we all have them right on both sides of the coin, the good and the bad.

Michael:           But a lot of the bad ones made it all about themselves. They led with ego. They weren’t effective listeners. They were more directive and less collaborative. And I know you’ve heard the whole term command and control, right? And so a lot of people think it ties back to the military, and that’s an easy leap to make. But the great leaders out there have more of a command and collaborate type of approach. There are times where you need to be directive, you need to be in command. But there are many times, probably more than we realize, where we can be collaborative.

Michael:           So the best leaders to sort of flip that me over we, they valued the we over the me. And it’s more about power with as opposed to power over, and they’ve had a versatility or an agility or a flexibility, whatever ility you want to actually point to that allowed them to flex their style based on the situation. And I took so much from them. But also their ability to be empathetic and really listen. And this is before, you know, empathy was a big popular buzzword in corporate America. It was well before Brené Brown and TED talks and vulnerability.

Michael:           They were just able to admit when they trip and made a mistake, and they were open about that. And they realize and they shared that those trips, those stumbles, made them stronger and better as leaders. But going back to empathy, they just had a beautiful way of listening to truly connect and understand their employees, as opposed to listening to reply, which is right now what most of our society is doing.

Michael:           And so I from them just how to be an effective listener, how to value the we over the me, and make it about your people. And if you make it about your people, because it’s a people business regardless of whatever business you’re in, if you have a good vision and you have a good attitude around accountability and responsibility, you can do a lot of wonderful things in business.

Patrick:            Yeah, I would totally agree, especially around the empathy piece. It’s interesting, you know, this is 10 years since I certified and went through a program around emotional intelligence and I would agree at that point, the idea of emotional intelligence was really very fluffy kumbayish type of stuff. Hold hands. Yet I think as people start to see the data that continues to come up, they realize that this is not a nice to have or a soft skill. It really is a need to have and a strong skill.

Michael:           Oh absolutely. This is, these are like secret sauces. But yeah, it’s more of like these are the tickets to the dance now. Like it’s the how, the how piece is so important. Everyone focuses on a what, but how you get things done in today’s world is so vitally important, that if you don’t have it, you’re not going to move your career forward like you want to.

Patrick:            Yeah. And I don’t know if you would agree with this, or certainly I’d love your thoughts on this. When I first came across the term emotional intelligence as somebody that was in sales and looking at what it involved, to me it just seemed like these are selling skills in some regards, in terms of understanding your customers.

Michael:           Absolutely, yeah. They are selling skills. And what’s really funny, because I was thinking about this, this morning as I was trying to write a future blog around selling models, and how most selling models out there don’t speak to any of this, right? It’s just, it’s so crazy. But you know, and you know, we had a selling model back in our day and those selling models cost companies hundreds of thousands of dollars and the license for them, and they don’t really address that real heart of selling around emotional intelligence and connecting with people. So companies spend all this money on challenger and all his other stuff, but it’s the same old, same old, just dressed up a little bit differently.

Patrick:            Sure, foundational behaviors.

Michael:           You bet.

Patrick:            Sort of shifting now. So you went from sort of a corporate career, and then what prompted you to sort of make the shift to say it’s time for me to go off and do something on my own?

Michael:           Well, so it was, as you know from reading my book, there is a moment in the ICU that I mentioned this guy’s name, [David Kolb 00:11:11], also a guy from Maine by the way, lives up in Portland, and he was the first guy that I ever knew as an executive coach. So this is, you know, circa late 2000. So we hired him at our company to become a team coach, and about six months prior to my accident, which I know we’ll get into here in a bit. And he, for whatever reason, he left a mark. Well actually I know the reasons why he left the mark. He really just sort of spoke to me.

Michael:           But I didn’t realize what type of mark he left. I mention his name, and again I don’t remember this at all, but my wife took notes. I kept on telling her, find David, he will, basically, he will show us the way he’s our leader. And after I came out of the ICU she was like, who’s David? Who is this guy? And I’m like, why are you asking me about him? I’m like, I’m all bandaged up. I was still in traction. I was a mess. You know, you’ve read, like I was a big mess.

Patrick:            [crosstalk 00:12:07]

Michael:           You know it was, why? And she was like, you kept on mentioning his name. And I was like, oh wow, that’s a seed. So that seed was planted back in 2001, that I knew one day I would follow in his footsteps and become an executive coach and a builder of people and helping people slay the negative stories in their head just so they can achieve complete success and be the better version of who they can be it. It just took 13 years of watering and tilling the soil, a little fertilizer, until I was ready in 2014 to make it happen. But I knew, like I knew when the conditions were going to be just perfect to make that move. And that was some of the watering and fertilizing process over the 13 years. Just clearly defining, and then also deciding when it was time to start my firm.

Patrick:            Obviously you were talking about what happened that sort of led up to part of that, which obviously then leads up to the book “Shift,” which as I mentioned to you before this that I absolutely loved that book. I devoured that thing in about two hours and I told my wife, there aren’t many books that I will pick up and won’t put down all at one time. And yours is certainly one of them, because the story was so intense the way it was written. I’d be curious, so from your perspective, what prompted you to write “Shift,” and then what’s the story that speaks to it?

Michael:           Yeah, sure thing. So what prompted it? You know, it’s interesting. A lot of people, that when the, I call it my last bad days, you know, so it was still in 2001. So I’ll share a little bit of the story, and then we’ll get into the genesis of the book. On July 11th, 2001, I was the marketing director for my company’s, you know, our company’s flagship drug. A lot of pressure, you know, if we missed the mark, the whole company missed its mark. So I tell people, if my drug sneezed, the whole company caught the flu, because it was so important. So vital for the financial health of the organization.

Michael:           And I was in my early 30’s, I was a new dad. My oldest daughter was three and a half years old. My youngest was seven months old. Linda and I had been married at the time, seven years, we’ll be married 25 years next year in next May. And I was trying to juggle it all. I thought I had to be superman at work. I thought it had to be superman at home, and I was trying to mask all my stress. And what I did is I just sort of poured it inside, trying to repress it and restrict it and control it. And I was really good at chasing happiness.

Michael:           And I know a lot of your listeners will, this will resonate with them. I would always finish that sentence. I’ll be happy when, I’ll be happy when I got promoted, I’ll be happy when I buy that new car. I’ll be happy when our big sales meeting is over because it’s really stressful planning it. I would go home and I would tell my wife like, it’s just busy right now. It’s going to slow down in a bit and then I’ll be happy. And she was like, yeah, right buddy, you say that all the time. I’m like, I don’t say that all the time. And she’s like, all the time, you say that. And I was really good at saying that all the time.

Michael:           And every now and again, I would catch, it just like some of the listeners out there. Like you touch happiness, you buy that new car and you feel pretty good, you feel accomplished. But then someone drives up with a nicer car a few weeks later, and then it’s like, oh wow. Or you have to put the car in for service and you have to pay the service bill. All that jazz, right? So the happiness is fleeting. And so we had a meeting out in New Mexico, north of Albuquerque, south of Santa Fe, out in the middle of nowhere. I decided to bring my bike out, because I wanted to ride my bike in all 50 states. It’s still a goal of mine, still pursuing that.

Michael:           So I brought my bike out, figured I would avoid the hotel gym. It was July, it was like New Mexico. I was like, this is great, you know, do a few miles before the meeting. And on that morning, July of 2001, it took my bike out and on my fourth lap, I found a little loop that went out the back of the hotel up the main entrance, it was about two miles in length. Came around the bend, and around the band was a Ford Explorer coming right at me. He had crossed the center line of the road, he was traveling about 40 miles an hour. Hit me head on.

Michael:           I remember everything, the sound of me hitting the grill into the windshield, the screech of his brakes, and you know, the sound it made when I came off his hood and was knocked unconscious. And when I regained consciousness, the EMT were all a flurry trying to save my life. And I asked them, only a question another cyclist can appreciate, I asked them, how’s my bike? You know? And they’re like, what? And I was like, yeah, how’s my bike? And I was, you know, Patrick, I was trying to cut the tension with a little humor as I often do, and they’re like, don’t worry about your bike, sir.

Michael:           And I didn’t have any ID on me, but I could tell from the energy of the scene that my life was in balance. And I just remember willing myself, and I shared this in the book, not to fall asleep. I was like, whatever you do, Michael, don’t fall asleep. Because I thought if I fell asleep I would lose control over the situation and I may never ever ever wake up again. And they said, hey, we got to call a helicopter to take you to the trauma center in Albuquerque. That was the only trauma one center in the state. And as the helicopter landed, I remember saying, hey, you know, if you live Michael, life is going to be different. You’re going to stop chasing happiness.

Michael:           And I wanted to live, you know, I wanted to live a life that was more present, more filled with gratitude. I didn’t necessarily have that definition or those desires right on the accident scene, but I knew I wanted to stop chasing happiness. And what happened in the accident, this whole life and death thing was a real thing that I felt. So I broke a whole bunch of everything, as the readers will find out. But the major injury was when the left femur shattered, it lacerated the femoral artery. So in a lot of ways I was bleeding out in the middle of the desert.

Michael:           The doctors told my wife if I was 10 years older or not in shape at the time, I certainly would not have made it by the time we got to the hospital. So, I feel very fortunate to be alive. I feel lucky to be alive and yeah. So then I went to the ICU. The first surgery took 10 hours. I needed 34 units of blood product, and the next four days I spent in the ICU. So an incredible last bad day to say the least. But to your question about writing the book. So back then that was a big story at our company. Like Oh my God, Michael might not make it.

Michael:           And then I stopped sharing the story in a lot of ways, it was like we expanded and new people came in, and people didn’t even realize that something as tragic and horrific happened to me. Because by just looking at me, they’re like, oh yeah, just a normal guy, the kind of guy that we’d see, you know, at Whole Foods. So it was like, oh, you’re just another corporate executive, and they didn’t know the backstory. Because I wasn’t necessarily sharing it. But when I left my corporate job, my executive job, and I met a whole bunch of new people, everyone said, hey, you got to write this book, man.

Michael:           This is an amazing story. It’s going to be great for your business and speaking gigs and all that jazz. And I was like, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, I know. Intellectually Patrick, I knew that what they were sharing with me all made sense. You know, people they get a book, they go out on the speaking tour. It’s great for their business. Ad I had all these notes and journal entries from my journey, if you will, with my recovery. So I had all the makings of the book, like all the emotions were captured, all the different surgeries, different events, all that jazz.

Michael:           So I got to work trying to write this book, but I would write it and stop and write it and stop, and it just didn’t feel like, like the motivation behind writing it, was like about my business and making money and speaking. There was something missing. And so I took a course with Seth Godin, who I’m a big fan of, and he asked the first question in the course, like what’s it for? And so I used the idea of the book as like the big project. I was like, okay, what’s this book for? And then it came to me, the book is for my girls who are too young to remember pre-accident daddy, and really for anyone going through a challenge. Their version of their SUV, their last bad day, if you will.

Michael:           And I wanted to help inspire them and motivate them in a very relatable way. Not a fantastical type of like you’ve got to climb Mount Everest as the definition of success, but in a very relatable way to help them motivate themselves, and get inspired, and shift their perspective so they can create the life that they wanted. And to further that, because it wasn’t about making money for me. It was about this message, and I realized I live for a reason, and one of the reasons why I lived is to share this message.

Michael:           And because of that, we decided to give all the proceeds away to charity to World Bicycle Relief, and they help young girls conquer the challenge that distance by giving them mobility. And I thought it was a perfect charity to donate the proceeds to, because I had lost my mobility for a while until I regained it. So “Shift” is really about the message, not about making money. It’s not about my business. Obviously it’s tied to it, but it’s not about that. It’s about really helping people and sharing, sharing this story about what happens in life and how you respond to it and how you can get past your obstacles.

Patrick:            Yeah. It’s interesting, as I was reading, especially where you spoke early on of even the sort of maybe a feeling of resentment toward the person that hit you, that how that had changed your life. But really you go onto talk about, especially one of the dates was August 21st, was this new beginning, and this idea of perspective. And it made me think of certainly a TED talk and work done by a Harvard researcher, Dan Gilbert.

Michael:           Yeah.

Patrick:            Where he talks about how we manufacture happiness, that we take all of these situations and we have the choice. And to me that’s, it seems like that date that you mark there is sort of a stake in the ground, where it’s your choice to say this is all going to be for good.

Michael:           Yeah. So that date, Patrick, was key. And as I share with the readers, it sort of sounded like a big lightening bolt moment. But I do believe it was more of a drip by drip pedal stroke by stroke in the days leading up into that moment, where I decided that if I was going to be the best person I could be, the best husband, the best father, leader, just a overall person, that I had to shift my perspective and tap into my beautiful network, which I affectionately call my Peloton. That I could, you know, I get choice in the matter.

Michael:           You know, there’s a great Victor Franco quote, sort of just like the Dan Gilbert TED talk, is that we’re not defined by our life events, but rather how we respond to them. And I knew, I finally realized I had choice in the matter, which is so empowering and powerful that we get to wake up every day choosing how we want to show up, choosing the ripple of energy we want to put forth in the world. Like we can put forward really powerful, growing community, compassionate energy. Or we can show up in more of a woe is me, in order for me to win, you have to lose, looking at the world through a lens of scarcity type of energy too.

Michael:           And certainly there are a whole bunch of people doing that current day. But back then, that day in August, in 2001, I realized I finally had choice. I didn’t have to be sort of a victim to my victim story I was telling myself. I could shift my story, shift my self narrative, and start leading the type of life I wanted to live.

Patrick:            Yeah, and again, it comes out in that story. You know, when you talk about this idea of chasing happiness, it’s funny, it’s one of the things that I think of. It’s similar to chasing our shadow that we run as a kid. You never catch it, but it’s always right there with us. If we just choose to see it, but we don’t have to chase it. It’s inside of us. And I think that’s certainly what you speak to here, is that we all have that ability. Unfortunately, we overlook it for something else at times. The book is now out there. What do you want sort of a legacy, or for the reader to really walk away with? If you look at it and say, this did what I wanted it to do?

Michael:           Well, when I write my blog and even with “Shift,” I want people. I’m a big believer in the power of the pause. So after someone gets done reading it, obviously they put it down, and I want them to pause and have moments of reflection in terms of how they’re living their own life. In the last chapter, I share 20 ways of being, 20 ways of showing up. And my hope is that maybe they won’t take all 20, because that’s a big bite to swallow all at once.

Michael:           But maybe they take a few and start incorporate them in their lives so they can create the life that they want, create a better tomorrow as I like to say. So I’m hopeful, and I know through stories I’ve heard from people who’ve read the book that they’ve done just that, they’ve paused, they’ve had moments of reflection. They’ve tried to think through like are they chasing happiness too? I have so many people who’ve come to me and said like, I felt like you wrote the book just for me. And when I go out there now to speak, you know, and there might be lots of people in the audience, or a very small number.

Michael:           It runs the gamut as you know, where people have come up after, like I thought you were speaking right to me. And to me that’s one of the most powerful compliments someone can give, because in that moment I feel like I’ve reached them in a very relatable way. That what I’m putting forth out there is not, you know, my definition of success. It’s not like you have to climb Mount Everest or do an Ironman triathlon to be successful or get to the C suite. What I try to share with folks is like, your definition of complete success is your definition, and it’s having a great career.

Michael:           It’s also having all that success within, the peace, the happiness. All that stuff that you can manufacturer, that you can create. I want you to have that too. And if that speaks to them and they start to make subtle changes in their lives, then wow, that’s so powerful. Or they have more awareness how they show up and how they interact with people. Because I believe if we have awareness and we’re mindful and thoughtful, that interaction by interaction, right? Drip by drip, pedal stroke by pedal stroke, we can make the world a better place.

Michael:           And I’m hoping that “Shift” does that in its way. I know all the people who read it, and because all the proceeds go to World Bicycle Relief, we’re changing lives halfway across the world. When one of those girls that benefits from WBR. World Bicycle Relief, gets their bike, well their lives change in measurable ways. And it’s a cool book to read, and I know I’m biased in this way, where like by buying it you change a life somewhere else, but by reading it you could change your own life and the lives of those around you.

Patrick:            And it’s right on the cover, World Bicycle Relief. I think if you read below that, there’s a sort of subtitle, this idea of creating better tomorrows, not only for the reader but for somebody that’s going to be the recipient of what’s to come. So I would agree. You mentioned mindfulness in the book in your introduction to that, and powered that, and I see that almost in line with emotional intelligence where that is going in terms of being seen as a must have for people. Are there any other rituals that you follow?

Michael:           Well, one of the big ones around nutrition. So every morning, I’ve been doing this for years. First thing in the morning, Patrick, is 20 ounces of water. I’m a big believer that hydration leads you down a certain path each day in terms of your overall energy and nutrition, so that’s big. My mindfulness and meditation practice, meditation in the morning, but also something that I call grabbing a PBR, which does not stand for Pabst Blue Ribbon. It’s pause, breathe, and reflect. These are micro moments of mindfulness throughout the day.

Michael:           Just to hit the pause button, slow that heart rate down, sort of ease your blood pressure. Quiet the mind a bit before we rush onto the next task. The other part of my ritual is gratitude. I didn’t know anything about gratitude back in 2001, many of us didn’t. You know, again, it goes into the whole category of like all the things that we didn’t know about. Emotional intelligence, to vulnerability, to gratitude. And so every night before bed, I spent a few minutes just in quiet thought on the things that made today really great, the things I’m grateful for.

Michael:           And they can be small wins or big wins, and even what I stress to people is that we can be grateful for our struggle, the struggles in life. Because when we get through them, not if but when we get through them, they’ll make us stronger. So you can even be grateful for some of the tough times in your life. And I try to do that, actually I’m pretty successful at doing that piece. That’s a must have in my life every night before I go to bed.

Patrick:            I’m so happy to hear you say that. The idea of gratitude, especially for the difficult things. And I think we often lose sight of that and we give too much power to the difficult things. Whereas to me, I think our past is our power. Whether it’s positive or negative, those are the only things that we can leverage is the good and the bad and how we choose to do that, again, is gratitude for those experiences. So I’m right there with you. I think that’s great.

Michael:           I love that. The whole our power is in our past. I love that notion, Patrick, and I totally buy into it. These experiences build us into who we are today, and if we can just accept them and honor them as opposed to ignoring them and not accepting them, we can be so much better off.

Patrick:            Yeah. I don’t even want to learn to live with my past. I want to learn to leverage it. There is a dance.

Michael:           Yeah, no I agree.

Patrick:            So this has been great. And in regards to what you have done and what you’re providing other people, if somebody wants to get the book for themselves, where’s the best place for them to go to find it?

Michael:           Well Jeff Bezos will say Amazon. So you can go to, and you can pick up avocados and all your produce at Whole Foods while you’re at it. So you can do that. It’s on as well. If people want to get an autographed copy, they can go to my website, which is, and there’s a bookstore there. They can buy an autographed copy, and I ship those autograph copies throughout the United States and up into Canada.

Patrick:            I think I went with the Bezos route.

Michael:           Yeah. Hey Jeff, he needs a little bit more money. And to all the listeners out there, there’s a whole, like Amazon reference in the book. We won’t share it today, but you’ve got to read the book to understand or discover my prediction that I shared with my wife during the ICU.

Patrick:            Is it cryptic.

Michael:           And again, I don’t remember any of this at all, but she took copious notes, so I’ve got to make Jeff Bezos happy.

Patrick:            Well that’s good, and I didn’t get any avocados with it, I just want you to know.

Michael:           It’s an avocado free “Shift.”

Patrick:            Very nice, listen, I want to say thank you for this, Michael. I really appreciated this. Your guidance for me, our friendship, being able to read this book and get more texture into you as an individual and how you help other people to rise above their best. I really appreciate it, so thank you for that.

Michael:           No problem, Patrick. Thanks for having me on, and tell the listeners, I hope you got a pearl or two out of our conversation today.

Patrick:            I hope you enjoyed listening to Michael talk about his incredible story, speaking about his journey to his own success and how he has risen above his best. Michael truly is a builder of people where he is focused now on helping others to slay the negative stories that are in their heads and also to help people stop chasing happiness and recognize that happiness is right in front of them if they just recognize it and do the work necessary to bring it about. If you’ve enjoyed this podcast, please help spread the word, and help others to rise above their best. A rating in iTunes would be hugely appreciated on my end. Until our next podcast, take care.

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